Content Strategy, Social Media, and Personal Branding Unpacked with Julie Ross

In our latest episode, we have an incredible guest, Julie and we dived deep into the world of social media strategy.  We also talked about the essentials: organizing your approach, defining your branding with authenticity, and the power of tools like Canva to bring your vision to life. We talked about and the importance of consistency and engagement on platforms like Instagram. We delved into the reality behind the algorithms—there's room for everyone. Plus, we touched on the unexpected journeys in entrepreneurship and the reads that shape our mindset. Julie shares an incredible creation she's been working on in her business and you get a peek into what she is offering to her community. Join us, and let's build a community that values real connection. Check it out.  And remember, it's about progress, not perfection.

06:01 Original roadmap rebranded, but back in alignment.

08:30 Make money with course; minimal expenses. Oversaturation.

11:32 Regret over starting new social media account.

13:50 Focusing on Instagram, struggling with social media consistency.

16:53 Embrace personal branding with genuine self-expression.

20:10 Plan ahead, research, find inspiration on Instagram.

24:34 Learning to engage and grow community actively.

Follow Julie:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/julieross.co/

Follow Bin Bargains:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61554547213119

Follow Jen:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jen.lander/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jennifer.butram/

Resources:
Landing Imperfect Website
https://landingimperfect.godaddysites.com/

Transcript

0:00

You guys, I have to take a minute to share with you an amazing store in Geneva, Ohio. Ben bargains aims to make your shopping experience affordable while providing quality products at unbeatable prices. And when I say on beautiful prices, that is exactly what I mean. They offer the most incredible highlight items in their bins. Insane deals, a few things that they've thrown in there.$7 bins are a PlayStation five AirPods iPads. Amazing toys for over a hundred dollars home decor. I mean, you never know what high quality highlight items they're going to add to their bins. Lots of wonderful retail that can fill your house at prices. You won't believe. New inventory every Friday and restock for more goods on Saturdays for their$7 Ben days. I know he keeps saying$7 Ben days. I don't think I've mentioned this, but the most you will pay for their bin items is$7. My mind is blown. They have Sam's club and target clothing brands high seriously could go on and on about how amazing the store is. And the owners, Jeff and Heather bedroom. They bust their butts to provide you guys with the best deals and experience in their store. Their staff is so welcoming and friendly. I'm telling you, you make your way over to Ben bargains located at seven 11 east main street, Geneva, Ohio. And you will know exactly what I'm talking about. Stay up to date with them on Facebook at Ben bargains, where they often share their deals and you can find their hours and Ben prices there as well. So happy shopping All right. Hi, Julie. How's it going today? Great. How are you? I'm doing good. So you have been so busy lately. Um, we were just talking before this, like about how we were connected in a way. So through like mutual friends, but I just love following you on Instagram. You are always getting into something and I feel like you're in like this creative vibration right now. Like you just are doing all these amazing things right now. So I just wanted you to kind of fill us in on what you've been working on lately. Oh my gosh. Well, thank you for the sweet compliment. I love you. I am currently working on something that is so far off of anything I ever would have thought that I would be working on. But I am completely obsessed with it. Like, I work on it for 14 hours a day. It's pretty much all I do right now. And it's a Notion template. Do you use Notion? No, okay, so I didn't use notion either up until a couple of months ago Someone was giving away a freebie on instagram someone I wrote an account I really love she had a freebie and it was an ocean template and I downloaded it and I was Never so confused in my life. I was like, what is this like? It's so notion is a personal planning productivity app but i'm mainly working on the computer when you're building an ocean template It's much easier to do it on the computer. So um Anyhow, I started looking into her freebie that she was giving away, and I, I just kinda, I gave up on it after a short time. And then, something led me back into it. I was trying to find a way to analyze viral reels on Instagram. And I was like, I wonder if I could use Notion. So that got me into creating my first Notion page, which truly I had no idea what I was doing. But. I've since added that in, figured out exactly what I'm doing now. Now I feel like I'm not an expert, but I'm like an intermediate. I pretty much know everything that I think I should know about notion at this point. so it led me from there to discovering how powerful it was just to analyze one element of Instagram, which would be like a viral reel. And then I. Somehow started working on a whole template to help people build out. The perfect Instagram of their dreams. And so I love Instagram, I love design, and it's just like the perfect combination of the two of them of helping people do that. So yeah. How long have you been on Instagram for? Well, I was on Instagram, I believe when it first came around, like 2012 maybe. Okay. Um, and then, so my first Instagram account was hacked in 2020. One, I had like 10, 000 followers and it got hacked and I'm still bitter about that. Yeah, I would be too, uh, oh my gosh. I love that. It's the worst nightmare. All the time and energy you put into something and then, oh my goodness. Oh my gosh. And so many things I only had on Instagram and didn't have them anywhere else, you know? Yeah. And so they were all gone and I tried for like a year to get it back, but it is gone. So anyways, I rebuilt. I kind of lost my spark for Instagram for a bit because I was so mad. But then I decided to rebuild. So yeah, it's just, I don't have a huge following, but I've been successful business wise on Instagram. I've always been way more focused on community building than on trying to go viral or anything like that. But recently I've discovered that I need to implement more strategies just to get more eyes on things. And so I do believe there's like a good combination of both. So. Yeah, I feel like a lot of people think that they have to have this huge following before they can make any money on Instagram, but for you, that's not your experience, you have been able to make this, a profitable experience on Instagram, even with, a less following than you had before on your other account, Yeah, so I was mainly using Instagram from 2018 up until, let's just say last June. I was using it for network marketing. I was with Young Living, Modare, a couple different companies. And so I was using it in conjunction with Facebook to share the products that I was promoting. Then I decided to get out of network marketing and did the digital marketing MRR space. And I actually. revamped an old Instagram account that I had had for my thrift store business. I ran thrift stores for 15 years. And so I revamped this old account. It had like a thousand followers and it used to be a vintage clothing account where I would sell cool vintage clothing and I was like, well, none of these followers are going to really care about digital marketing, but if they counts here, I might as well use it. Yeah. And It was unreal. It really made me believe in the power of what you can do on Instagram, like how fast things move with that digital marketing. That's kind of how I found you too, I heard of that thing called master resales rights, but I got into that in the fall and I think I put Maybe a full week into it. I was going full force. I'm like, yeah, this is for me. I'm gonna do this. I like bought the course for my sister in law and then I Gave up on it because I was doing a lot of other things like podcasting I was trying to put this podcast together and that was just really taking up a lot of energy of mine and time because I mean i'm working a full time job and then I was trying to do that and then I Was like, yeah, let me do this course too. I'm like, whoa I need to put the brakes on all this stuff but I didn't do all the modules in that course But I did a fair amount of them enough to obviously like build my own course to try to sell it Um And it was really awesome. I feel like there was so much good information in there. I wish I would have kind of stuck to it a little bit more to try to, I guess promote it to people to help them So are you still, selling that course Well, was it the roadmap that you bought? Was that the course that you? Isn't there like learn and earn or something? And then, yeah, so that's the one that I had, or have. So yes, it is really just a rebranded version of the roadmap. Okay. So the roadmap was like the original course that came out last February. And then. At this point, I think it's been rebranded multiple times by different people. so I had the original roadmap and then I did buy learn and earn as well. But then I kind of went back to the roadmap, just feeling as though I was more in alignment with the course creators who created the roadmap. They're just wonderful. And, for me personally, I think there's a ton of value in this course and probably in many of the other courses, but I had kind of a, A time where in the beginning I was like, okay, I want to help people make money online I you know because it was just seemed like a natural transition from network marketing into which is what I did It was help my team make money online so it seemed like a natural transition from that into the digital marketing space, but then after a bit of reflection and Kind of being cringed over my own content, to be completely honest. I archived a bunch of it and I was like, I don't think I really want to be in the wealth industry. Like, I don't really think I want to be in it. Maybe you felt that way too. Like, it's just a peculiar place to be in. To be like, oh, you can make X amount of dollars and these are my results. And so, I just felt like I wasn't in alignment with talking about money all the time. Whereas, It is cool that you can buy these courses and sell them for 100 percent profit, but there's so many other things you can do with the course than to get online and tell people how much money you've made, and then they might buy the course and might not make any money, and then be disappointed. And so, it's kind of a slippery slope. And I was like, I don't think this is my journey, but I do still sell the Roadmap course. It's the only one I sell. For people who want to buy it, but I don't make any promises and the value in the course is there enough that I feel confident to sell it, but I don't want to be in the wealth, make money online niche whatsoever. I totally get that. When I first started to try to sell the course I know a lot of people were like, oh, this is a fad, this is gonna go away, this is oversaturated, and I think people were viewing it that way because, Of the draw to make a ton of money off of it versus like just trying to help people build a course that could allow them to make money, but not just resell that course. To make their own course and sell it in that way, you know but do you feel like If someone just wanted to get into the course to resell that specific one and not make their own Do you think it's like a fad or it's oversaturated in that area? Like people could definitely still make a profit from it. Oh people could definitely still make money from it. The thing with the course is and it I still see I saw in the beginning was that, wow, what an incredible opportunity for someone who doesn't have the skill or the time or the resources to create their own course. Or, you know, they don't, maybe they don't have 250 a month to pay Kajabi to host their own course. Buy this course for one time, no other expenses. And one of the things about the roadmap is that they do. Really, try to teach people how to do this in a way where they don't have any other expenses other than that one time purchase Which what business opportunity can you get into where you just have like one expense and then that's it, you know And then you can resell the investment over and over so I feel as though Wow, like what an incredible opportunity for people to make extra money. I think that people will say that it's oversaturated because what happens is that once you start looking into something on Instagram, your feed becomes flooded with it. That's just the algorithm, and I saw that when I almost veered into faceless marketing. One of the things I tried back in the winter just to see, cause people were bragging it all up and they were like, faceless marketing. So cool. And I was like, Oh, should I try that? And when I started a brand new account from scratch. There was nothing about master resale rights or digital marketing in my feed. It was people from all over the world just like sharing their lives. And so when you think about 8 billion people in the world, and the fact that there might be with all of these courses, there's probably 10 popular courses, there might be 200, 000 people worldwide who purchased these courses. So like, it'd be the furthest thing from unsaturated that you could possibly get at this point. It's just that. People see their friends doing it and then they're like, Oh, well, you know, everyone's doing it. It's oversaturated, but it's truly not. The opportunity still is there. I think it just comes down to the content creation aspect of it and the promotion aspect and like figuring it, how do I want to share this in a way that's an alignment with my values maybe some people are okay with being in the wealth niche. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Obviously lots of people are okay with it. As long as you have integrity in the way that you're sharing. Okay. And don't lead people to believe that they're going to make a fortune just because you did, you know, that's so true. I do like how you pointed out it being related to the algorithm because I've noticed when I was in to that My feed was just like. It definitely was filled with master resale rights courses and people who were selling it. And then anytime I'm searching for something else because sometimes I'll get into like these dance videos and then that's all I see you can really make your feet anything you want it to be just by what you're searching and you're into. So that's such a great point. Yeah, absolutely. So for anyone who wants to pivot from one niche to another, if they've already built like a solid following off of one niche, would you recommend that they stay with their current account and pivot or create a new account? So that's a really great question. And my opinion on that has changed since last summer, because I did Start another account like revamp that old account basically, instead of posting on my main account and I wish I had have just stuck on my main account because there's a couple different things that go into it and one of them is The consistency aspect and the fact that it's hard enough to show up on one account, let alone, you want to change niches and you're like, Oh, I'm going to start a brand new account from scratch. Well, you have to be super patient to do that because it takes a while to get results, you know, to get people to follow you. And then also do you want to let your other account just die? do you want to just be like, Oh, this account's done where you already have a following of people who know, like, and trust you. So, yes, I did have good results with going over on my thrift account and getting people to follow me over there, some of them. But still, now that all of that content is over there, I feel like I have to stay on that account. But I miss my old account. And I miss the people that are over there. But when the times when I've tried to do two accounts, it is just too overwhelming for me. I'm like, I cannot flip back and forth between two accounts. I don't know what I'm sharing where. I only want one account connected to my Facebook. So, I feel like for the amount of time and effort that you should put into one Instagram account to have a really good one. If you already have an account that is, like, sort of for business purposes, if it's not just, purely for family and friends, then I think it's okay to pivot on that account and just let everyone know that, hey, I'm doing a rebrand and this is what's going on and just make people part of the rebrand and show the steps that you're taking. And then it makes it fun for your audience too. I've done that a few different times. I think I've had three different accounts and I will always just come back to this one that I have now and finally I've just gotten to the point where it was like no more because recently I've been working with someone as a mentor and she kind of suggested that. She's like, hey, are you open for like an experiment? Do you want to try to start a whole nother page just for your podcast? And I instantly was like, ugh, no! Like, no, because I've done it a few other times, and it takes forever to build over there, and I know that I always come back to this one. So I'm like, nope, I'm just sticking with this one. I'm writing it out Let's see what happens, So it's just been easier for me because it was so time consuming like you're saying I've even tried like right now my focus is just instagram and trying to grow there But I've tried to get on TikTok and Facebook and all of that. And I'm like, I just don't have the time. Like, I would love to be able to do all that, but I just am trying to focus on one thing right now. and hopefully become, an expert on just this one platform. And then maybe, once I'm comfortable, I can, switch over to other things. But that has just been so challenging for me. But as far as, like, consistency, because we were just talking about consistency, I think it could be really challenging on social media, especially when people feel like they're putting more into it than they're getting out. What are some things that you feel like could help someone who's struggling with that right now? So, the first thing with your social media and showing up, I think, is to just get super organized. And this is something, as I'm building this Notion template, something that I'm, like, really focusing on helping people with, because I think, a lot of the times, our confusion just comes from a lack of direction and a lack of clarity. You know, we just are like, what are we doing? so I think the first thing is to be like, okay, like get clear on your brand. You are your brand and you're a good example. Your Instagram is your name. That's perfect. Like you think about the big accounts, like Jenna Kuchar, who has a million followers. She's someone I really look up to in this space and she's just branded it as herself. So I feel like. That kind of goes back to the previous question too of like not switching of just like making everything that you do out of your brand But when someone is feeling like overwhelmed and they're like, where do I go with this? I think the first step is to get really Aware of like, okay what do I want to share and then start laying it out? Like, okay, this is what i'm going to share my stories every single day. These are my content pillars for me. I have five content pillars. I have let's see if I can remember them, right? They're all in motion, so I have content strategy, personal branding, digital marketing, Instagram design, and let me just look here. I knew I was gonna have to look at my list. And Notion. Hello. So, knowing that I can filter all of my ideas for reels through that process and be aware of like, does this make sense? And then for stories I think it's important to share lifestyle content and then you can mix in your offers as well. But I think when you get super clear on all of that, it's like, okay. You're going to be way less overwhelmed when you know what you're going to share every single day. And when you get up and you're like, okay, this is what I'm going to share today. And You just get it done. I think that is helpful. And even for me, hearing you say that, cause I think the big thing that I struggle with most of the time is clarity. And it's like, I wake up and then I'm like, okay, what direction am I going in today? So I've noticed the most. Success in my real post when I'm feel like I'm clear and aligned with what I'm like doing I think that's great advice So since we're talking about personal branding a little bit for anyone who's starting a business Do you recommend personal branding to help build their business? Yeah, so I recommend thinking of everything as if you are the brand Unless you don't want to be the brand, you know, like, unless you're like, no, the factory is the brand. But if you personally are doing something for you, you're a great example with your podcast, you are the brand. So I feel like it's super important to brand yourself in a way that is sharing genuinely bits of your life. And letting people into the little nuances that make you you as part of your brands and that goes into even like like of course brand colors logos fonts all of that type of stuff I prefer to pick those things from things that you love instead of trying to be trendy Like I love the color blue so when I branded my instagram i've got blue in there just like Think back to the things that really are you. And even the things that have shaped you over the years, the books, movies, all of those things, they go into your brand. And I feel like a lot of times people feel like branding is just the basic things, you know, like the logos, the fonts, but I see it as so much more than that and I see it as the little things that make you you or going to be what people fall in love with you for and what they become obsessed with your content over. The font thing is something that I've been stuck on because I've been told by other people before, like, what's something that is you? Like, if someone scrolls past, they kind of know that it's you. And one of the things was like, well, let's figure out like a font. what's a font that you feel like is, you, you know? And I'm like, I feel like it's by the day. Sometimes I'm like, I really like this font. And then I want to use that one. And then the next day I'm like, no, this one looks great. So I. I think I'm all over the map with the font, too. I cannot hunker down on the font. I'm like, I'm just going by my mood, like, on those. You know what you could do, just like a suggestion, is go through and find, A couple of different fonts that you really, really love. Like, in someone else's copy, just go through someone else's content and be like, or through Canva, and then set up a brand kit in Canva. And then you can just use those fonts for your real cover photos. I know that I always loved a certain font. And then when one word is, Italicized of the quote I'm always drawn to that. So I added that into my brand I like a lot of fonts too. So I think I have like four different Okay, that's gonna be me. I'm gonna load up on the fonts I'll narrow down to four but it'll still feel like enough for me. So yes. No, I like the patchwork quilt Look, like I don't want my instagram just like all one whatever like I have to have little different elements I like that too. Yeah, do you just use canva or do you use anything else? So I have all my templates in Canva and then I do one, I think there's just one that I use. The, um, the organic, like, fonts within Instagram. But the rest of them are all in Canva. Okay. Yeah, so. There's a, I know that there's so many people who have good ideas, uh, for content. And I feel like there are, I guess maybe I'm selfishly asking this too, because I'm someone who, I feel like I have all these ideas, but then it's kind of hard to convert it into a reel. Do you have any, helpful suggestions on how someone can overcome this so that they can take their ideas and, like, put them into a reel? Yeah. Okay. So I think it all comes down to, planning in advance and, knowing what you're going to do ahead of time. And, like, knowing what your content pillars are so that you can decide, is this actually a good idea, first of all? But then I feel like step one would be to go on Instagram and, Start researching. And for each of your content pillars, save an album on Instagram that is that content pillar, and then find all of the things that you can that would go into that content pillar or that inspire you, like, all of the reels, carousels, whatever they may be, and shove them in that album. And that's gonna be your main source of inspiration. It's because, personally, I feel as though I need to see what else is going on in there to know, like, is this what were the results that this other person had with this? And so I never copy anyone. I just, I always want to do my own thing. But I feel as though everything at this point has already been done, you know, 5 million times. Oh my gosh, yeah. Going out and like looking for that inspiration and then getting really organized on the side of like, okay. I'm going to do five reels this week, and these are the topics, and I've got my inspiration, and this is what my hook's going to be, and this is what my call to action's going to be, and again, that's all inside of my, I'm not trying to promote my new product, but it really is all inside of it. It's called the Instagram Designer, and so I have it laid out for people who are asking the question like you just asked, and they're like, I'm overwhelmed, because it's a beast, like it's a monstrous, yeah, it's a whole situation to help. Oh my gosh. You should be promoting this. That's amazing. Absolutely. Speak to it, girl. okay. So, what do you feel like is the best way to build like an engaging community on social media? How can people do that? Okay. So, I feel like it starts with two things. One is making sure that whenever someone leaves you a comment on your post, That you go and you unless it's a personal or private account or like a family account Like if you know, it's a business account and you know, they would appreciate a follow back go and follow them back and then Engage on one of their posts as well So as soon as I respond to each of my instagram comments You've probably seen me do because you and I do this back and forth now I go to your account and I instantly comment back to you and It really sends a strong message to people When you respond to their comment on your post and then you go directly to their account and leave a comment It sends a strong signal that you are someone who's going to engage back and reciprocate And so I feel like that is like such an important thing that people Don't do often enough, but you do and then also, um, the other thing is to make sure that you are Following new people in your niche. I my goal is to follow 20 new accounts every single day And a lot of the times I'll find those accounts by looking at who has liked or commented on other accounts in my niche. And the sooner after they've just posted, the better, and then I'll go to their account, and I will, like six of their posts. Go through maybe like one of their stories and then hit follow if I have a lot of free time Which I don't right now. I would leave a comment. I do recommend leaving a comment But because i'm so busy right now, I just I just do six likes Like of a story hit follow and like about half of the people I'd say will follow you back definitely not everyone will follow you back and I would never go and unfollow someone who followed me back I think that's the most like that gives me the ick when people are like i'm just gonna follow to try to get a follow and then i'm gonna Unfollow them. I hate that. I hate that so much so, yeah, I do not recommend doing that at all, but If people don't follow me back, I do unfollow them because I don't engage in one sided conversations. So I want to know that the person that I'm engaging with is actually following me back and going to engage back with me. So I go, you can filter your people that you're following by latest. So I will go see who I'm following maybe once a week or whatever. I'll go down through the list and I'll just check to see, and you can check on who they are following. And the very first person will be you if they're following you back. So if they don't follow me back, goodbye. Yeah. But I mean, I don't do that to be rude. I just, I I'm building a community of people who I engage with and they engage back with me. I would never unfollow someone who follows me. Yeah, but if they don't want to follow me back then I'm like, well Okay. Yeah, I know I I definitely feel like I've learned a lot from you as far as like building an engaging community. The one that I haven't done and I don't know if I've heard you say that was the following 20 people a day, in your niche and I think that's such a great idea. Um, I'm going to do, I'm going to use that one. Okay. So I'm going to start doing that too, but it's so true that like, I feel Like if I know someone follows me I will go to their page just to see who it is. If I, don't know, just by their name. And if I see that they are trying to grow too, I'm like, whether it's in my niche or not, but I could see that they're trying to grow. Then I'm going to follow them back because I feel like that's what they're doing too. You know, they're trying to build this community and I'm just, I don't know. It's so frustrating when you're, When you're trying to connect with people and build a community, like for example, did you see that I applied to do the speaking thing? Um, I don't even know if I was really saying much about that. Maybe you didn't see it. So I should talk about this more. So I applied to do a speaking competition and I've connected with a few people who are also trying to do the speaking competition. And we've talked in like DMs a little bit and I followed two of them, And it was like crickets on the other end, like no follow back, no nothing. And they're trying to build and I'm trying to build. So I'm just kind of thinking, I'm like, that's an interesting way to approach something. Like I'm trying to connect with you. We have something in common, So it's always interesting to me I'm like, is your intention to grow? Or what are you doing here? Because I'm trying to grow and connect with people and engage, So it's interesting when they don't. And it's like, I don't know if They're just not aware of how it works, or if they're I think that a lot of people are stuck on that number of people that they're following. Yeah. They get stuck on that, and they're like, oh, I don't want to follow over a hundred people. Like, what? Yeah. That's ridiculous. Yeah, and you know what? If I see someone who has a few thousand followers, but they're only following like a hundred or two hundred or whatever, I'm like less likely to try to even follow them. I'm like, my shot of them following me back and actually trying to connect with me is probably not good. Same. I can tell, like if they, even if they have like ten thousand followers and they are keeping, you can tell if they're keeping their number of following back under one thousand, Like, I'm building a community here. Like, it's genuinely not to try to Sell anyone anything or to try to be like I would never dm and like be like, hey girl Like I genuinely will just support people back and comment on their posts But again, like the law of reciprocation tells you that people should do the same back and some people just aren't going to do that So it's just with time being our most valuable asset and so limited. It's just a waste of time to Go and engage endlessly with people who don't follow you back. Yeah. Oh my gosh, that's so true. That's so good. Okay, so I have a random question for you because we both are so into books. We've bonded in that way, too. That's a good connection for us. What are you reading right now? Are you reading, I know you're so busy, I don't even know if you've had a chance to read anything, but are you currently reading anything? I am currently reading Kristen Hannah, The Women. I haven't heard of that one. How far into it are you? I'm almost done. I think I'm, well, not almost done. I think I'm 70 percent done. So I always read one personal development book and one, like, novel book to just go to sleep at night. Always, like, and I did start reading how to ADHD back in the winter, and I never finished it. And it's like, that sounds like an ADHD thing, right? Yeah, right? You didn't finish that. Interesting. But I learned a lot in the first half, but I just happened to, normally when I get up in the morning, my personal development book would be then, but I've been jumping right into Notion. So I haven't been reading at all, but before bed, I do read Kristen Hannah, the women, and it's about, the nurses that served in the Vietnam war. It is incredible. Yeah. Okay. I was going to say, do you recommend it? Okay. I'm going to have to check that one out. That is right up my alley being in the nursing field and a nurse practitioner. So, okay. I'm going to check that out. So what is your favorite book or books? My favorite personal development book or like business type book is Influence, the Psychology of Persuasion by Robert Cialdini. Yeah, okay. That's like incredible. Like there is no other book that I've learned as much from, I also highly recommend that everyone reads Dale Carnegie, How to Win Friends and Influence People, because I think that people do struggle in the area of, Just communicating with other people. Sometimes in like a sales type environment. It's more of a sales book than anything. But I do recommend that people read that one as well. But, that is my favorite. And then for a fiction, novel, my favorite book is two of them and they're both Chris and Hannah. It's The Great Alone and The Nightingale. They're incredible. I've been looking for some fiction books too, so, and I haven't read those so I'm gonna check those ones out. The Nightingale is just, oh my gosh, it's all about World War II. It's very sad but it's very colorful and it's just, they're just both beautiful books. Yeah, I'm gonna have to check them out. All right, so where can people find you? And if they want to work with you, where can, can we send them to? So my Instagram is julieross. co and I am going to open up some limited space for one on one coaching. We are going to Bahamas next week. But when I get back, I'm hoping to get that up as one of my offers. So, yeah, that's amazing. Okay. I'll put that in the show notes too. Um, so everyone go follow Julie because she's amazing. And if you want someone who is actually going to engage with you and you want to build a community and you want to build it with her, then please follow her. Cause she's absolutely incredible. And I'm so grateful that we have connected in the social media. world and now here on the podcast. So thank you so much for being on and you're amazing. So everyone follow her. She's incredible. Thank you so much, Jen. I know if we live closer, we would be having coffee. Heck yeah, we would. All right. All right. Bye guys. I'll see you next week. Thank you so much for joining me on this episode of landing imperfect. I truly appreciate you being a part of this community and sharing this journey with me. If you do want to connect further, then don't hesitate to follow me on Instagram at Jen dot Lander. I would love to hear your thoughts, any questions or any stories that you want to share. So, DME there, I also have a website. It's a landing and perfect website where I share a blog post about my podcast, and then you can join my email list. I have a PDF that provides anxiety and stress management tools that you can. And use as well when you join my email list. So check it out. My website will be linked in my show notes. So don't hesitate to reach